feminism or Biblical? Biblical or racism?
So here’s something that I’ve been thinking about most of my life.
I grew up in a denomination that will not ordain women, nor even allow them to serve as deacons. At least not in America (and I’ll come back to that in a minute). I’ll pause here and suggest that any church that will not allow a woman to serve as a deacon has not understood the definition of a deacon. In fact, a deacon’s job is to do what most of society thinks a woman should be doing anyway, serving others. Somewhere along the way, we’ve gotten deacons and elders mixed up. But I digress.
The idea of not ordaining women has always puzzled me because, as a child, my church celebrated the lives and ministries of two great women missionaries. We also supported the ministries of many women missionaries serving over seas. I never could figure out why it was ok for women to preach to men in Africa, but not to men in the U.S. ??? Today it has left me wondering if my childhood denomination has a streak of racism running through it? Again I say, why is it ok for a woman to preach to and teach a congregation of men in Africa, but not in the U.S. Is it because we don’t see African men as men? This has always been my one great question concerning women in ministry.
The second goes beyond mere puzzlement and points directly to the Bible. How is it that we as Christians are so often prepared to base entire doctrines on one verse out of the Bible, while leaving out twenty other verses that suggest something different?
The verse in question today is 1 Timothy 2:12 where, in the verse, Paul seems to suggest that he does not permit women to have authority over or to even teach men. The verse further suggests that women should remain completely silent while in church. I think it would be fair to say that even the most fundamental of churches (for the most part) have been happy to forget about that last part. It seems that, even the most chauvinistic among us aren’t prepared to enforce the idea that, once a woman steps through those church doors, she shouldn’t be heard from until she steps back out again. We give no reason or justification for ditching that part of the verse. We just know that it’s a bit ridiculous, and so we let it slide, hoping that nobody will bring it up. A similar phenomenon takes place when we read 1 Timothy 2:9. After all, for many churches, Sunday morning is a fashion show!
I could go into great detail about how many of today’s Biblical scholars believe the church to be reading 1 Timothy 2:12 out of context. About how Paul never meant for this verse to be read as a generalization, but that it was written for a particular church, in a particular city, for a very specific period of time. But all of this would simply be thoughts and opinions, and I’m not prepared to argue translation. What I am prepared to argue though, is that the Bible is full of women who held authority over men.
First of all, Paul himself (in 1 Corinthians 11:5) takes the time to advise women how to dress when they preach. And, in his letter to the church at Philippi (Philippians 4:2-3), Paul acknowledges the women Euodias and Syntyche as leaders and cofounders of that church.
Peter (in Acts 2:17-18) also discusses women in ministry making it clear that the Holy Spirit will give spiritual gifts that will not be limited by social, cultural, popular, or even traditional assumptions. In this passage he goes on to talk about both sons and daughters prophesying (or preaching).
In his record of Acts, Luke makes it clear that the husband-wife team of Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos his theology, even correcting him in what he was preaching (Acts 18:26). Furthermore, all four daughters of Philip became preachers (Acts 21:9).
In the Old Testament (Judges 4:1-4), a women named Deborah (who was also a prophetess) served as a judge over all of Israel.
In Romans 16:1-2, Paul refers to a women named Phebe who (wait for it) was serving as the deacon for the church in Cenchrea.
Finally, and I think this one may be the most telling of all, in Romans 16:7, Paul sends greetings to Junias whom he recognizes as an apostle. But Junias is not an accurate translation of the name. Uncomfortable with the implications of a female holding the highest preaching office in the church, the mostly male translators of many Bible versions render the name as the masculine Junias. Fortunately there are better translations-like the new TNIV-that recognizes the apostle as Junia, a female (sometimes translated Julia). In his book, Adventures in Missing the Point, Tony Campolo suggests that, “When men start imposing translations on the Bible that agree with their theology, they are walking on thin ice.”
Even in my own childhood denomination, which does not ordain women or allow them to serve as deacons, there have been women pastors. Many Baptist churches in 19th century Maine and Wisconsin were pastored by women because no men were willing to take the positions. Today many Baptists explain away those older churches as mere splinter congregations.
And, for the record, this post isn’t a rip on Baptists. Many denominations share this “good ole’ boy” belief. I just think it’s time to call it what it is. At best, a convenient way for men to stay in power and, at worst, racism.
I grew up in a denomination that will not ordain women, nor even allow them to serve as deacons. At least not in America (and I’ll come back to that in a minute). I’ll pause here and suggest that any church that will not allow a woman to serve as a deacon has not understood the definition of a deacon. In fact, a deacon’s job is to do what most of society thinks a woman should be doing anyway, serving others. Somewhere along the way, we’ve gotten deacons and elders mixed up. But I digress.
The idea of not ordaining women has always puzzled me because, as a child, my church celebrated the lives and ministries of two great women missionaries. We also supported the ministries of many women missionaries serving over seas. I never could figure out why it was ok for women to preach to men in Africa, but not to men in the U.S. ??? Today it has left me wondering if my childhood denomination has a streak of racism running through it? Again I say, why is it ok for a woman to preach to and teach a congregation of men in Africa, but not in the U.S. Is it because we don’t see African men as men? This has always been my one great question concerning women in ministry.
The second goes beyond mere puzzlement and points directly to the Bible. How is it that we as Christians are so often prepared to base entire doctrines on one verse out of the Bible, while leaving out twenty other verses that suggest something different?
The verse in question today is 1 Timothy 2:12 where, in the verse, Paul seems to suggest that he does not permit women to have authority over or to even teach men. The verse further suggests that women should remain completely silent while in church. I think it would be fair to say that even the most fundamental of churches (for the most part) have been happy to forget about that last part. It seems that, even the most chauvinistic among us aren’t prepared to enforce the idea that, once a woman steps through those church doors, she shouldn’t be heard from until she steps back out again. We give no reason or justification for ditching that part of the verse. We just know that it’s a bit ridiculous, and so we let it slide, hoping that nobody will bring it up. A similar phenomenon takes place when we read 1 Timothy 2:9. After all, for many churches, Sunday morning is a fashion show!
I could go into great detail about how many of today’s Biblical scholars believe the church to be reading 1 Timothy 2:12 out of context. About how Paul never meant for this verse to be read as a generalization, but that it was written for a particular church, in a particular city, for a very specific period of time. But all of this would simply be thoughts and opinions, and I’m not prepared to argue translation. What I am prepared to argue though, is that the Bible is full of women who held authority over men.
First of all, Paul himself (in 1 Corinthians 11:5) takes the time to advise women how to dress when they preach. And, in his letter to the church at Philippi (Philippians 4:2-3), Paul acknowledges the women Euodias and Syntyche as leaders and cofounders of that church.
Peter (in Acts 2:17-18) also discusses women in ministry making it clear that the Holy Spirit will give spiritual gifts that will not be limited by social, cultural, popular, or even traditional assumptions. In this passage he goes on to talk about both sons and daughters prophesying (or preaching).
In his record of Acts, Luke makes it clear that the husband-wife team of Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos his theology, even correcting him in what he was preaching (Acts 18:26). Furthermore, all four daughters of Philip became preachers (Acts 21:9).
In the Old Testament (Judges 4:1-4), a women named Deborah (who was also a prophetess) served as a judge over all of Israel.
In Romans 16:1-2, Paul refers to a women named Phebe who (wait for it) was serving as the deacon for the church in Cenchrea.
Finally, and I think this one may be the most telling of all, in Romans 16:7, Paul sends greetings to Junias whom he recognizes as an apostle. But Junias is not an accurate translation of the name. Uncomfortable with the implications of a female holding the highest preaching office in the church, the mostly male translators of many Bible versions render the name as the masculine Junias. Fortunately there are better translations-like the new TNIV-that recognizes the apostle as Junia, a female (sometimes translated Julia). In his book, Adventures in Missing the Point, Tony Campolo suggests that, “When men start imposing translations on the Bible that agree with their theology, they are walking on thin ice.”
Even in my own childhood denomination, which does not ordain women or allow them to serve as deacons, there have been women pastors. Many Baptist churches in 19th century Maine and Wisconsin were pastored by women because no men were willing to take the positions. Today many Baptists explain away those older churches as mere splinter congregations.
And, for the record, this post isn’t a rip on Baptists. Many denominations share this “good ole’ boy” belief. I just think it’s time to call it what it is. At best, a convenient way for men to stay in power and, at worst, racism.
Comments on "feminism or Biblical? Biblical or racism?"
You gotta wonder...I think Paul was very much speaking in a time when women were always in the backgound for the cultural purposes of the time, not as a standard of the Christian churches today. I think probably I have more respect for male preachers, but is that learned behaviour, preference, or just plain wrong? Most of my friends are male. I have few female friends and I still have problems with female sports casters. I think I have to admit to a little jealousy, though.
What of Mary Magdelene and the role she played in Jesus' ministry, before and after He ascended? So many questions. So few answers. I was asked to speak at the Deacon's Christmas Dinner, though. That was pretty cool. They were very supportive. The preacher sat in the back and did the wave with the other ministers. Very spiritual.
This is such a big issue for churches today. By suggesting that woman are unqualified to preach or teach I think we perpetuate the idea that the church is full of judgemental racist, sexist, hypocrites.
God can and does use women in many denominations and I think we do ourselves a major diservice by preventing them from speaking more often.
As both you and Cari have pointed out, the cultural context of that passage has to be considered and shouldn't be misunderstood.
Cheers,
Peter
www.lublink.ca
Not only in the N.T. but also in the O.T., Women were appointed leaders over men. Take Deborah, a prophetess. She was not only appointed the Judge over the nation but a closer look at the scripture would tell us she was a married woman when she held that position. Oh, no!! the scandal of it all! What was God thinking!? Was Paul contradicting himself when he said "there is no male or female that we are all one in Christ Jesus"? And when he wrote that we are “all part of the body” and “all have gifts” useful for the kingdom was he writing only to men? If yes, than what parts of the Bible are not divinely inspired for me as a woman? Is the Holy Spirit restricted by genders? Thanks for this post….I wish more people knew or at least asked why we believe what we believe about women preachers. Not just what we have been told but what the Bible teaches. (and not just what the ego can or can not handle.) Some men may have used the position of that one verse to control or for power but I know women who have hid behind it.
God will hold us accountable for what we say and for what we don’t say. If His spirit commands us to speak we must speak. Better to offend man than God.
Hey, have you read the latest issue of JAC over at ArmyBarmy? it's got an article by Danielle that touches on this very subject and it's worth a read, I think.
Desire to control? I have never heard it taught that way and would have to look at the original text. This I do know....hwater desire for her husband means as part of the curse....In Christ Jesus the curse is broken and we are restored.
In reference to Deb in Judges. I would like to know where the verse is saying that a man was appointed but refused to do his duty so Deb stepped in? God appointed her for that time. It was a difficult time, people were not following God. But she was chosen not by men but by God.
All scripture should be looked at together in context. The Bible also gives scriptures concerning slaves and what type of slaves you are allowed to have. We have learned to explain these verse and give freedom and dignity to all men...neither slave nor free....maybe now is the time for the end of that verse also to become true....niether male nor female for we are all one in Christ Jesus. ( without exception)Not to lord it over but to work fully side by side for God's glory and not man's or woman's or human's.
Oi Shaun!
So, in not allowing women to be involved in the leadership of church, and to keep them from the giftings that God has bestowed on them; be they preaching or any other kind of leadership - that would not be considered at all degradation of women? Pray tell me how that is so! I cannot get my limited brain around that! I cannot get that you can even comprehend Scripture to right off women in that regard - what exactly can we do in church then?
Tell me, was the fact that Deborah was leading such a shocker to society because it was new, or because God had said that it was wrong? In OT, where does it say that women have to follow - is this my ignorance or are there is a strong case to suggest that women up until Deborah was wrong? Really, I'd love to know.
I have an issue with feminists; can't stand the way they male-bash and claim that anything males can do, they can do also. Just a lie, they can't father children, they can bear them though! I understand that there are differences - I happen to interpret the passage where women have to shut up, in the same regard that I want to tell feminists to shut it - wait til you have something useful to say! Or even, "Just cause you can, doesn't mean you should!"
However, many women can, and therefore should; we cannot blanket women with the judgement that they cannot - it just doesn't even make sense!
As I have said, I struggle to believe you believe this - I think you are just playing devil's advocate! Good job, you had us all going there!
Okay, got it.
So..
God creates man
Man/Woman sins against God
God curses man and woman
God gives the Law as a covenant between Him and Man
God himself comes and dies on a cross to break the chains of sin forever
God's accomplishment is great, but not great enough to let women preach
..or be Deacons
Okay.. thanks for straightening me out. It makes perfect sense now.
Evidently this is the case. Jesus was able to overcome death, hell and ALMOST every curse on mankind...but not women in leadership. Maybe Jesus should come back and give it another go?
And don't forget that the order you are created in is extremely important - everyone knows this (universally accepted).
So pagan worshipers are the most enlightened, followed by animal idolaters, then male chauvinists and dead last are feminists - dirty infidels!!
Actually, maybe the scientists working on SETI win? I'm so confused - maybe I need to go to conservative seminary and get smacked in the side of the head with a doctrinal 2x4 to straighten me out.
I love that you can tell controversial posts by the number of comments. My personal understanding of all of this is that different exegetical practices apply to different texts in the Bible and to apply the same one to each type is to get it wrong! My understanding with regards to letters is that they were written to a specific group of people, for a specific purpose regarding a specific issue. This means that you can't always take everything in there as an exact directive for your life. These letters were never originally intended to be so. So I guess it does mean that some things can be Biblical (found in the Bible) but not scriptural (is that the right way around to say that?) The other thing with understanding scripture is that you need to take everything in the light of the whole message of the Bible. That means that if there is something that is contradicted by a number of statements, it may have been a situation specific comment. It's interesting to note that no fundamental Christian belief is contradicted in Scripture, but some auxillary ones can be. So I didn't actually speak to the topic but maybe to the methodology? Who knows. This is probably too long ago for anyone to read this anyway!